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| donfarr |
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 Registered Member #2001 Joined: Fri Dec 23 2011, 09:51pmPosts: 1298 | Hi Everyone, As most of you know I am a computer illetrate, some questions especially to Daves, on MSW somebody has put up 3-D gunboat which he is developing into a kit, I understand how 3-D printing can help in developing plans, BUT DO NOT UNDERSTAND HOW IT HELPS MODELERS in there builds, I can see from some of daves 3-D answeres to my Caustic questions and they SURE HELPED me understand when someone creates a 3-D plan can a CD or DVD be used instead of writen or video instructions, WHAT ABOUT IT DAVE is it doable, let all the experts on this subject get involved. Thanks Don | ||
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| Peter Foele |
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 Registered Member #4491 Joined: Mon Sep 22 2014, 01:09pmPosts: 146 | Hi Don, I will try to explain the principle of a 3D printer, but I confess I am far from an expert. Imagine your normal printer (or more acurately one of the older style inkjet printers). When you print an image the printer is putting a very thin layer of ink on a piece of paper. That is how you get the image. Now a 3D printer works in the same way, in that it puts a thin layer of material in this case, not ink, and on a plate (not on paper) that does not allow the material to 'stick' to it. Then it puts ON TOP OF THAT anther thin layer of material, and another on top, etc until it is finished printing. Each individual layer of material 'sticks' to the previous layer. This gives you a 3D 'thing' that you can now hold in your hand and turn in any direction. Now, when we are making a wooden model of a ship, we are making different components, each with a very specific shape and dimensions - preferable as precise as possible. Gluing/fitting these together eventually turns the many bits into something we can recognise as a ship. You can do the same on a computer - as Dave has showed you in the Caustic log. This has helped you understand how these parts fit/should fit together. It is actually this process that enables Engineers to make many complicated machinery (from a coffee machine to a fighter jet and beyond) without actually having to build anything 'for real' As explained above, you can now 'print' each individual component. These can be put together in a 'kit' package. In the design world these things are used for some practicality tests that are difficult to do with the computer alone. Building the plans can very easily be done without 3D printing. How can this help model ship builders? I am thinking of components that are difficult to make as they require a special mastery of skills - for instance a figurehead, or a canon. If you can create the computer file, hen you can have the printer do all the complex work. OR you can develop a 'kit' where each component is the exact shape needed and requires very little work from the modeller - maybe some dressing and painting and gluing. But for me this goes in the direction of plastic kits - except that the manufacturing process is different making the 'waste' famework that holds the individual parts redundant. Other than that, I see very little benefits to this process - and if I am honest would take most of the 'joy' away from the hobby (at least for me). Hope this helps Peter | ||
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| donfarr |
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| Registered Member #2001 Joined: Fri Dec 23 2011, 09:51pmPosts: 1298 | Hi Peter, I agree with you on building your own ships, but can not it be used the way Dave used it to show me things that I had trouble understading, what do you think about using it like instructions to supplement the plans it would make model ship building great for novices and some intermediate builders like myself, I like you would not want a 3-D model it is like you said like putting together a childs plastic model. Thanks for explanation EDon | ||
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| Peter Foele |
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| Registered Member #4491 Joined: Mon Sep 22 2014, 01:09pmPosts: 146 | From an educational standpoint, I can see very little difference between using 3D printed parts, and what Daves has done in the Caustic videos. I do agree that the 3D drawing (= different from 3D parts) are a great tool to explain things / enable people to visualise things quicker. | ||
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| donfarr |
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| Registered Member #2001 Joined: Fri Dec 23 2011, 09:51pmPosts: 1298 | There You go Peter in just a few words you explained what I was trying to convey I was definnatly talking about 3-D drawings as oposed to 3-D parts what Dave did with my Caustic build helped me GREATLY, that is where I was getting at but did not really know the difference. Thanks Don | ||
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| daves |
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| Registered Member #105 Joined: Wed Jul 15 2009, 12:01pmPosts: 2622 | finally I am able to sit up I caught some nasty bug and it has been wrecking havoc on my system. Still not quite up and running full speed yet but at least getting better. I saw the 3D model on MSW and really don't know where he is going with it. A 3D model can be printed from the files but why? 3D printing is a very very slow process you can accomplish the same thing by using a sheet of Acrylic plastic and laser cut all the parts just like the Caustic kit. It would take many hours to print the parts and about 20 minutes to laser cut them. Peter makes a valid point a 3d printed model would be no real fun it would be gluing parts together. As you know don the Caustic does require finishing and fitting the parts. The only benefits to 3d printing is in making the stern carvings and such detail which a laser can not do. however the draw back is it is extremely difficult to creating the print file. The basic of 3D printing and laser cutting kits is creating a 3D computer model. Once you have this the other processes are just the next step. I see where don is going with the concept of the 3D instruction DVD or CD. I think this is the way to go and here is a prime example of that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JUS9zbd00o imagine if you had control of the video. Rather than just view the video you had control of the model so you could view it in any direction and move parts around. This would be a perfect building aid if the parts in the kit were laser cut and you could see all the parts laid out in the sheet. you could punch out the parts and pre fit them in the computer 3d model. This is all being done right now in computer aided engineering. you don't see this in ship modeling because it is way to costly to create such instructional 3D DVDs. Not only that but you have to be really savvy with 3D modeling and computer modeling to create the DVD. This will be the future of ship modeling and I say "future" not because we don't have the technology it is because we do not have the people to sit down and create it for the hobby. | ||
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| daves |
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| Registered Member #105 Joined: Wed Jul 15 2009, 12:01pmPosts: 2622 | our grandkids major in computer graphic animation at a college level, it is an industry all in itself and pays really well for those who have the skills. I doubt we will ever see it in this hobby because the majority of us are well over the age of 50 so no one in the hobby or a few at the most are even playing around with it. I can see it as a educational tool and a great way to show how to build a model. We have the technology but I don't see it going main stream due to lack of interest by the general population of the ship modeling community, a serious lack of willingness to work together as a cohesive group and the unwillingness to break away from traditional methods and embrace new technology. | ||
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| bensid54 |
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 Registered Member #2957 Joined: Wed Jun 13 2012, 05:43amPosts: 964 | I was thinking about getting a 3D printer to make some of the mechanics for my Bireme which looked like the right thing to do. I went to our local Source store where they have small affordable(cough cough) 3D printers to check out, the 3D printed items you see on the internet are well defined and intricate, very impressive so I was hopeful. At the store they had some items they printed up with the machine that was on display, what was facing me was good but a little rough looking so it would need finishing. At first I was impressed then I picked the item up and had a good look at it, what you don't see on display is the mess in back. In behind in the hollow was a tremendous amount tip drippings making a large plastic web that would require extensive cleanup so when I took all things into consideration a 3D printer would be as much work as building them from scratch myself. Needless to say I left that store empty handed but with some knowledge about 3D printers instead of assumptions. | ||
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| daves |
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| Registered Member #105 Joined: Wed Jul 15 2009, 12:01pmPosts: 2622 | A 3D print is done 2 ways what you saw as the webbing is very typical of 3D printing. A 3D print sees the surfaces and fills in between surfaces with a webbing. you can instruct the printer to print an object as a solid but that would take a real long time, use a lot of material and it may or may not support itself during the printing process. | ||
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| daves |
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| Registered Member #105 Joined: Wed Jul 15 2009, 12:01pmPosts: 2622 | a buddy of mine has built a high end 3d printer so within a month or two it should be up and running. I will be able to play with it first hand so I can see what can be done and what can not be done. | ||
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