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| USS Constitution - Model Shipway’s Kit No.: MS2040 | ||
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Moderators: Winston, aew
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| Author | Post | ||
| jacknastyface2 |
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 Registered Member #5239 Joined: Sat Apr 21 2018, 05:29pmPosts: 823 | Jonathan G wrote ... Why would tape stick better to a rough surface rather than a smooth one? I know I lightly sand between coats of poly so the poly has something to grab on to, but I've always found a smooth surface for tape works better. First of all may I ask why you are varnishing that area of the hull? I am not an expert on glues but when you varnish, it sinks deep into the pores of the wood. How does glue work? I dunno but there is some things which do NOT work in my experience with finishing and this is one of them. Do some googling on the subject! Keith. | ||
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| Jonathan G |
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 Registered Member #4155 Joined: Thu Mar 14 2013, 09:01pmPosts: 1246 | Keith, Wipe-on Poly is polyurethane not vanish. I put it on the hull to make its surface smooth for the tape to adhere. A quick analogy would be the difference of placing tape on the surface of a piece of sandpaper vs placing tape on the surface of a pane of glass. The tape on the glass will hold better, at least that was my way of thinking. But I have been know to be wrong more times than I would like to remember, so I will do a little digging as you suggest. | ||
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| mrshanks |
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 Registered Member #5745 Joined: Sun Aug 16 2020, 02:56pmPosts: 2588 | Keith and Jonathan - If I can weigh in here. You are both correct!! It all comes down to the type of adhesive and surface preparation. Most of your resin-based white glues would want a rough surface to soak into the wood for better grip, while more modern adhesives such as CA prefer a smooth finish for maximum surface area. In the case of the MasterFoil Venture Tape included in the Constitution kit, it uses an acrylic type adhesive designed to stick to glass surfaces. So, a very smooth surface would be best. Indeed, a layer of poly can provide a smooth surface but you must also consider a couple other factors: 1. Did you use the oil based Wipe On Poly or the Polycrylic version? If you used the polycrylic version, it may have a chemical reaction with the acrylic adhesive in the copper foil and not stick well. If you used oil based poly disregard this step. 2. How old is the roll of copper tape that came in your kit? The adhesive on the tape can loose its effectiveness after many years. There is a shelf life on the stuff. If the roll is more than 8 years old it could cause issues. 3. Surface prep. It is very important the hull is completely clean of dust, oils, fingerprints and other contaminents prior to laying down the copper tape. A gentle wipe with a dust free cloth and some alcohol just prior to application is a good idea. 4. It is not necessary to "burnish down" this type of copper tape. It only needs to be pressed down enough to conform to the shape of the hull. If it is burnished too much the adhesive will squeegie causing a spring effect resulting in random loss of adhesion. The problem could be a combination of one or more of the items above. Hope this helps. Good luck. Your build is looking great!! [ Edited Mon May 02 2022, 10:47pm ] | ||
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| Jonathan G |
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| Registered Member #4155 Joined: Thu Mar 14 2013, 09:01pmPosts: 1246 | Mike, thanks for looking in. Your insight was valuable. I doubled checked the instructions, Ken Foran's build log (a professional model builder) on ModelShipWorld.com, and the practicum and all require the hull to be smooth. The Ken used a sealer and the practicum instructed that 3 coats of poly be applied. I used the water based poly version. Technically, I did not burnish the plates onto the hull, but rolled a dowel back and forth which flatten any raised areas on the plate and pressed it solid to the hull surface. Whether my hull was contaminated with dust, oils, etc., the tape was aging, the humidity was wrong, or I got up on the wrong side of the bed, my initial application did lift from the bottom where it overlaid the previous layer. The subsequent applications have had less and less problems even though (as far as I know) I hadn't change my technique. Feel free to enlighten me anytime you guys. | ||
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| Jonathan G |
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| Registered Member #4155 Joined: Thu Mar 14 2013, 09:01pmPosts: 1246 | Progress as of May 10, 2022 | ||
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| Jonathan G |
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| Registered Member #4155 Joined: Thu Mar 14 2013, 09:01pmPosts: 1246 | Progress report on the copper plating: I believe I am approaching the halfway point, if not already on it. If you look closely, you may notice two areas of the keel where the sides are not covered in copper. I left those aeras untouched so it can be identified as the places I used wood from the actual ship. Also, I have not yet plated the bottom of the keel.  | ||
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| Jonathan G |
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| Registered Member #4155 Joined: Thu Mar 14 2013, 09:01pmPosts: 1246 | Still in the routine of cutting up about 20-25 plates at a time, embossing the face of the plate with the sandpaper and the fine teeth of my miter saw on two edges then placing, and finally burnishing the plates into position. After about 40 to sixty plates, I’d quit. I couldn’t take any more. Before I could add any additional plates the next session, I’d have to CA glue all the plates that curled up not sticking permanently. That is a pain.        | ||
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| Jonathan G |
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| Registered Member #4155 Joined: Thu Mar 14 2013, 09:01pmPosts: 1246 | Now I am approaching the top edge boundary of the plating. Up until now I had been using Robert Hunt’s practicum as a guide to perform this task. His plating method used a double capping row to end his coppering. This method is shown in numerous guides as one method which copper was done, but not the only method. The actual ship, it turns out, uses a different method, at least it does currently. It may have used different patterns in the past, but since my model reflects the current version for the most part, Mr. Hunts method is incorrect for the current method as you can see from the pictures below. I had started to create the double copper capping row but ripped it out when I realized the discrepancy. I still have about 3-4 hull rows to the water line, plus the stem, keel, and stem edges as well as the rudder, to plate.  | ||
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| Jonathan G |
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| Registered Member #4155 Joined: Thu Mar 14 2013, 09:01pmPosts: 1246 | 2,500 or so Copper Plates so far My copper tape roll ran out 24 plates shy of completing the hull. However, I was prepared as Hunt’s practicum warned me that may happen, and I also read the same accounts in a couple build logs. This did not include coppering the stem, keel, stern, and rudder. Also, it was not unexpected that the oxidation color of the second roll of tape was of a slightly darker hue. Over time they will even out going from shiny new copper to old penny brown, and finally green copper oxide (if the model lasts that long).      [ Edited Tue Aug 02 2022, 07:35pm ] | ||
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| Jonathan G |
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| Registered Member #4155 Joined: Thu Mar 14 2013, 09:01pmPosts: 1246 | Copper Completed Finally…the major milestone has been reached – The coppering has been completed, including the stem, keel, stern, and rudder. I’m estimating it took cutting, embossing, and placing 2,600 -2,700 plates to do the job. I’m glad that’s over and done.       | ||
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